Three thoughts:
a) Will this moment between Hugo Chávez and Maria Corina Machado pay off for her in the primaries?
b) Re. the loonies in the rafters, is this what they had in mind when they talked about “vertical henhouses”?
c) First order of business for the new government: fire the Nazi providing the voice-over for this event.
Caracas Chronicles 
I like it: Using Hugo’s wind-up tactics on Hugo.
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uh ah que no va?
I still can’t get over how sick el highness is looking these days but who the hell knows.
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OMFG! This just happened…
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You go, girl! This is the kind of stuff that changes campaigns.
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Eight friggin’ hours listening to that imbecile telling stories and blatant lies can drive anybody crazy. You could see the outrage in MCM’s eyes. Let’s wait and see what the army of jalabolas will come up with. Maria Estela, Luisa Ortega and the fatty with Down syndrome face recently named comptroller general must be gathered now preparing the punishment for such affront to the majesty of the almighty comandante presidente. Can’t wait to see the next chapter of this story.
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I couldn’t possibly listen to eight whole hours of that, but as I had to drive somewhere yesterday, I caught a half-hour coming and then going. In those two half-hours of listening, I could not discern any theme or logical thread to his speech. He just rambled, speaking at random, seemingly, without any point to be made at all.
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No Roy it was 9 hours 25 minutes. (02:18pm – 11:43pm) and only people who are not willing to learn take your attitude.
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Watch out guys, we have a troll over here.
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What a juvenile argument! What can I learn in 9 hours 25 minutes? That is far longer than the normal attention span of a college student. Why do you think university lectures are generally given in hour-long classes? Human beings cannot focus on any one thing for longer than that, unless the circumstances are extreme.
As a general rule of thumb, if you can’t say it in less than an hour, you just can’t say it.
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If there is anyone who reads this blog that refuses to learn, it is you , Arturo.
You refuse to learn that what your POS president does is divide and plant hatred
You refuse to understand that he takes advantage of the poorer part of our population to keep them poor and ignorant, thereby perpetuating his hold on power
You refuse to learn that he permits and fosters Grand Theft Country on a scale never seen before.
You refuse to understand, Arturo, that you are Pendejo Util of the highest order.
Hugo’s cake is baked, I trust you have at least learned this.
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Chavez’s old standby, “aguila no caza mosca”, sounds tired and unconvincing. I say this not as a hardcore oppo, but as a simple observer. I think the deterioration of Chavez’s aura is evident to anyone not on his payroll.
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Proud of her! Venezuela heroica indeed!
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This lady does not represent the feelings of ordinary Venezuelans. Apparently only seeks to increase the percentage it takes for the primaries. Is there such a dictatorship in Venezuela, and that this same lady professes, in the National Assembly that tells the President of the Republic who is a thief … What would happen in another country if a person insults a president’s accountability to the country … ! My cornerstone is objectivity.
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I can’ t believe it! It brought tears to my eyes. Note the audience -they are kind of shocked and
can’t believe they are hearing it. And, afraid..She exposed the freakin’ animal -and he joked and
tried to laugh it off..I wish this would happen every day- everywhere he goes-everytime he speaks.
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Secretly, some chavistas were stunned / relieved that someone finally had the gall to say what some of them undoubtedly think.
What a great moment for Maria Corina. I don’t know if it will come to much, but it’s a great moment nonetheless.
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A month in politics is a very long time…
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I feel sorry for the mockery around her participation made by Chavez and his followers… she was very true and very brave, he does the same childish thing we used to do in a kids argument “you´re not in my level” he replied and didn´t follow her argument regarding the true nature of the #expropiaciones against #privateproperty … that was a very courageous fly !!! jajaja and not so much of an Eagle but a Zamuro!
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He also twisted her argument to take it personally: “Ud me llamó ladrón,” hoping that the cult of personality he has built would innoculate him from insinuation.
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Want to see a textbook example of cult of personality? Check this:
The race to find out who can suck up the hardest just started with Maria Leon. Behind come Luisa Estela, Luisa Ortega y Escarra. Esto trae cola.
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Brain-washed dingbat chavista. Sick, long-winded adoration of Chavez by a fool.
She should be in an insane institution. Even embarassed Chavez…
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I like María León. She’s very honest. Very wrong, but very honest.
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I disagree. SHe’s an old lady but, overboard to say the least.
My God man, on and on-wailing about how wonderful Chavez is
and how great the revolution is-sick freak.
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vaya democracia. maría león makes for a lovely grandmother. But in her public speech, she showcases the limited range of intellect among chavistas. We’ll see how far this goes…
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The audience of zombie automatrons were there to laugh and cheer “micommandante”-
they did not know how to react to the big buffoon being forced to look at reality,
This was so symbolic. Highest praise and thanks for Maria Corina Machado. I hope thousands more step forward now.
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syd, I fear he’s laying the groundwork for legal action against her via defamation.
—
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Parliamentary immunity …
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The Eagle? Is it the meds?
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Who is the chavista -arse who is voting against everyone’s comments??
Expose yourself, troll.
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No chico Juan, MCM is just channelling the same 10%-of-the-population, 30%-of-the-primary-electorate incandescently pissed off at the rrrrrrrregimen middle class oppo mindset that lost us 9 out of the last 10 elections.
“Aqui lo que hace falta es alguien que le diga sus tres vainas a Chavez!”
Gratifying? Certainly. Election winning? Not even in an oppo primary.
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“Decent” people.and she insisted on repeating it. Made me cringe and of course was grist for Mario Silva´s mill, methinks, for once rightly so.
A single word can do a lot to contaminate a whole message, no matter how gratifying otherwise — and turn off potential voters beyond that 10% boundary, even those who could welcome “alguien que le diga sus tres vainas a Chavez!”
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I agree with Francisco. She can have mentioned “propiedad privada” perhaps once, if need be, but that’s not the way she should have talked. The part about the mothers looking for milk is OK (although it is less common in the places with 60%> Chavista vote than in middle class urban areas), the very short part about the crime.
Empresarios? Empresarios? That’s not the people she should address in Venezuela, for Goodness sake.
And I agree as well: decent, decent, decent, decent. Qué le faltó? Gente con clase, as many of her followers say? (and I have read so many times that “gente con clase” thing)
It’s again catharsis for the 0.5% of people in Venezuela who use the words “propiedad privada” in their normal speech and mean also their own.
Now someone will say here party X has carried out “focus group studies” with top company Y and “found out” 80% of people in slums are for private property rights.
That is NOT the bloody point.
Why didn’t she describe he is hiding behind a microphone, that there is no real debate where he has to answer real questions in real time time after time as it is done everywhere?
Why doesn’t she talk about Pudreval and much more about the housing farce? About the billions spent in Russian weapons? (Venezuela is the 8th biggest importer of weapons, ahead of any Latin American country)
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She could not cover the whole spectrum but, she did well
I agree with Mr. Cristoba. 9.5 out of 10 !!
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Gente decente? Aquí hay gente decente?
That sounded like “nosotros, aquí, ingenieros y abogados opositores electos por la oposición somos gente decente”.
?
As opposed to which people?
You knew for one year already you could have the opportunity to address Chávez there, you get a salary to prepare for that and you get the votes of thousands of people and you do that? If you want to be re-elected in El Cafetal that’s groovy. Else, it is not.
Sorry, no. She has delivered better speeches before. There is no excuse for this one, this was so awfully predictable. Did they think they were going to play volleyball during the 2012 Caudillo speech to the National Assembly and didn’t know that if at all, they would have a couple of minutes to provide their message for the 39% of Venezuelans not voting and the 20% wobbly(non-hard-core) Chávez voters?
I’m starting to like even Julio Borges, that wee socialist mate.
Disclosure: one of my closest relatives is an absolute Machado fan
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“You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?”
MCM may have disappointed some by not riding their particular hobby-horse, but taking corrupt individuals to task in a public forum is one of the few weapons the people have against unchecked power. I applaud her for not letting herself be intimidated by the choro mayor, and for speaking honestly and eloquently.
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Escualidus
It is not my hobby horse. I am trying to see what is the common horse. You can’t keep on just sending satisfying messages to yourself, at least if you want to gain the hearts and minds of others.
Machado was courageous indeed, but one needs preparation. She had one year to prepare for that message. Others should have also followed, that’s true. But it is not enough to speak out your mind.
Did Machado win a vote for October yesterday?
I tell you: she did well until she went with a topic that really moves a tiny minority that is already with her, until she kept saying that about gente decente.
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In other words, she could have done exactly what you just mocked the hypothetical oppo intelligentsia for:
“Now someone will say here party X has carried out “focus group studies” with top company Y and “found out” 80% of people in slums are for private property rights.
That is NOT the bloody point.”
It seems as though you expected her to have crafted a message that was milquetoast enough to be swallowed by enough people.
As you say, that is NOT the bloody point. The bloody point is that the unassailable leader had to face criticism from an articulate, skillful orator, on live television, and was unable to address the issues raised, opting instead to claim to be above debating with a mere MP. THAT is what this moment will be remembered for, and that’s why it’s important. She could spoken of education. Or UCTs. Or gerrymandering. Or government encroachment on scientific research. In the end, it was about the symbolic act of showing the country that the emperor is indeed naked.
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No, Escualidus, no. She was talking to the people from El Cafetal and only to them.
At least I did not want her on this occasion to talk about education. I wanted her to tell him he is a coward because he does not want a real debate. That is the basic topic I wanted her to talk for 2 minutes, only stick to that. And she should have had an answer to the Aguila no caza moscas, which he has said already. I even asked a couple of politicians from the opposition to send that message before yesterday (fat chance, me as an unknown citizen). I have my mantra of education, but at least I know there are some moments you have to think ahead. The point is that Chávez does not accept a debate and we had to show him there he is a coward unlike the heads of state of democratic countries.
You don’t do that by saying “somos gente decente aquí”.
You don’t see it but a lot of people from those nini places took it as “no somos esa chusma”.
For Goodness sake, try to think for a moment: it is not about your or my horse, it is about trying to think how to get the others’ vote. And for that you don’t need to renounce to your goals or me to mine, it’s only that in that moment the main thing we had to
communicate is that he hides behind monologues, no one can challenge him live as they do everywhere else, EVERYWHERE ELSE.
One of the incredible things I see in Venezuela is that absolutely no one has even said only parliamentary systems allow indefinite re-election in democratic societies. You either are a president and can avoid a lot of debates until election time or you become prime minister with re-election possibility but get grilled every week.
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[i]No, Escualidus, no. She was talking to the people from El Cafetal and only to them.[/i]
Decency as the exclusive province of the elite? I’m not going to mimic you or FP and go on at length about how I have X relatives in Y barrio and how I spent Z years in bumfuck nowhere, but my lower-middle-class self finds that idea surprising. And the reductionist argument that such concerns may play well in insert-posh-neighborhood-here, but not in stereotypical-antithesis-of-big-city does more to further the “monte y culebra” stereotype than to dismantle it.
[i]At least I did not want her on this occasion to talk about education. I wanted her to tell him he is a coward because he does not want a real debate. That is the basic topic I wanted her to talk for 2 minutes, only stick to that.[/i]
Which she did, under the guise of requesting respect for those who’ve suffered the effects of his half-thought-out policies, such as mothers struggling to find milk, and being reduced to fighting over it, or citizens who’ve lost their property to haphazard expropriations.
[i] And she should have had an answer to the Aguila no caza moscas, which he has said already. I even asked a couple of politicians from the opposition to send that message before yesterday (fat chance, me as an unknown citizen). I have my mantra of education, but at least I know there are some moments you have to think ahead. The point is that Chávez does not accept a debate and we had to show him there he is a coward unlike the heads of state of democratic countries.[/i]
Letting Chavez’s ineffectual floundering stand on its own was more effective than any retort she could have made. Chavez has never seemed more a bully than he was left saying “aguila no caza mosca” with none of the conviction of years past, waiting for his groupies to cheer him on, all in response to an MP who requested some common decency from him.
[i]You don’t do that by saying “somos gente decente aquí”.
You don’t see it but a lot of people from those nini places took it as “no somos esa chusma”.[/i]
You don’t know who I am, or where I’m from, or how I think. The fact that I speak multiple languages or live abroad has no bearing on my origins and background. As a Venezuelan based in Germany, you ought to know this better than most.
[i]For Goodness sake, try to think for a moment:[/i]
That’s a needlessly insulting turn of phrase.
[i]it is not about your or my horse, it is about trying to think how to get the others’ vote. And for that you don’t need to renounce to your goals or me to mine, it’s only that in that moment the main thing we had to
communicate is that he hides behind monologues, no one can challenge him live as they do everywhere else, EVERYWHERE ELSE.
One of the incredible things I see in Venezuela is that absolutely no one has even said only parliamentary systems allow indefinite re-election in democratic societies. You either are a president and can avoid a lot of debates until election time or you become prime minister with re-election possibility but get grilled every week.[/i]
I believe she challenged Hugo brilliantly, and that his lackluster reaction, and his non-response response will remain in people’s collective memory far longer than anything MCM actually said.
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I agree with you there, EA:
Letting Chavez’s ineffectual floundering stand on its own was more effective than any retort she could have made. Chavez has never seemed more a bully than he was left saying “aguila no caza mosca” with none of the conviction of years past, waiting for his groupies to cheer him on, all in response to an MP who requested some common decency from him.
p.s. use the rather than the [brackets] to activate commands.
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I meant to illustrate the “flechitas” (but they didn’t come through). It’s the flechitas symbols that you have to use, EA, to wrap your commands, rather than the square brackets.
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I disagree. I think this is the kind of stuff that changes a candidate’s fortunes from having 3% to having, to use your numbers, 30%. I didn’t say it would change the election and make her win, but it could change the dynamic of second, third, and fourth place.
But maybe I’m wrong…
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No, you are not wrong.. You are right (this time-ha)
You are too nice and not self-promoting at all.
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Juan:
I’ll bet you a Reina Pepiada that MCM ends up closer to 3% than 30%. (Osea, if she polls less than 16.5% in the primaries, I win.) If she comes in over 20% I’ll throw in a batido, too…
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I tend to agree with Quico and Kepler. There were words missing. Saying that “expropriation is stealing” is technically wrong! She had to say that expropriation WITHOUT PAYING THE OWNERS is stealing.
I said it before, this was an emotional reaction after 8 hrs of stupididty that she should have controlled. It was improvised. Her voice was trembling, like about to cry.
Honestly, it made me wonder if she really has the steel temper a person needs to be a of a chaotic country.
Nevertheless, she should keep doing that as a member of the assembly, keep the outspoken attitude to awaken people, that’s great and she’s good at that.
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“…if she really has the steel temper a person needs to be a President of a chaotic country.”
Coffee time for me.
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Agreed, though she still needs time. Even so, someone on FB made a good point. Chavez´s apparently sedate reply was very revealing since he immediately assumed that this was a personal attack, not a (perhaps imprecise) criticism of a government policy. “You are calling me a thief” = “l’etat c’est moi”. But then of course he’s right.
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It looked to me like an incredibly courageous act. She basically called the leader of a massively corrupt narco-military state an indecent thief. That’s after having been shot at. I don’t think a focus group came up with that moment.
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I side with Kepler and FT. María Corina is still a bit of a caricature of the Caraqueño middle-upper class, being unapologetic as she is with her ‘Capitalismo Popular’ and the way she looks in the vallas. The message, I think, was great until the word ‘decente’ was uttered. I agree with the aforementioned that it is a word with strong connotations -“decente as opposed to who”, as Kepler said. It shines along with her white suit, reinforcing the stereotype, and begging the question: “as opposed to us poor, different and unfashionable?”
Then the word ’empresarios’. That was, lapidario.
In a country of extremes, cartoons are easy to draw. Two words, two dots here and there, and a big chunk of the country will fill in your picture, put in a box, and all in a matter of a single view of video.
I might yet be too young to know, but that’s my opinion.
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for being “too young to know” you express yourself well, AMR. I tend to side with your opinions.
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maria corina!!! i admire your courage and your principles… you frazzled the fatboy!! even if oudon’t win the primaries i wish you will be part of the transition to a democratic venezuela.
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sorry typo… if you don’t win etc etc
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i heard the whole thing….and still there`s something missing it her speech. you go and say that to the guy with the mike, with the crowds cheering only him ( sheeps of Animal Farm), with the jalabola voice in off from the cadena, and IDK it did seems like she is just a fly, and he`s bigger than her.
she seemed more like a heckler than anything else.
didn`t win my vote, but i`m sure that may have worked in El Cafetal.
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Yes, in El Cafetal and in Los Palos Grandes and La Castellana but not in Barrio José Félix Ribas en Petare.
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Chavez responds to her that she hasn’t won the primary and so lacks the ranking to debate him. By implication, he accepts the primary as legitimate, and agrees he must debate the winner. MCM punctured a lot of pretension here, and deserves full credit; I wish that she had said, too: “So will you agree to debate the winner of the primary on tv?”
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There has never been any question in the chavista mind such as mine that the primaries were somehow “illegitimate” since they will be supervised by the CNE which ran the Voluntad Popular internal elections which L. Lopez won and everyone accepted the results.
I know lots of oppos and here in Chacao most people I know will vote for Capriles. As our AN deputy MCM should be in the AN debating with facts instead of trying to make her normal media show.
It’s sad to say but Chavez put her in her place as being mediocre, rude/superior as a component of Los Amos del Valle and totally inexperienced as a politician.
I note that no one has commented on the content of this record breaking discourse as you are all fixated by one incident which will not change anything in the real world as JC hopes.
My bet is that Pablo Pérez will be the candidate by consensus since if only between half a million and one million voters turn out then this is disaster time for the Venezuelan opposition and their US backers.
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I note that no one has commented on the content of this record breaking discourse as you are all fixated by one incident which will not change anything in the real world as JC hopes. ”
Because he said absolutely nothing of interest to the nation. It was all the same paja loca he has been saying for 13 years.
You are not a very smart chavista, are you? Bringing up a fact that in the rest of the world is considered the act of a madman: speaking for 9 hours and 28 minutes.
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“As our AN deputy MCM should be in the AN debating with facts instead of trying to make her normal media show. “
You mean, Arturo, as your hero Chávez has done when he communicates with the public or his government, over the past 13 years?
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“he accepts the primary as legitimate”
if the primary is so legitimate, why do Ven consulates abroad not permit voting for the primary candidates on their premises? Why is Chávez blocking this democratic process, which is part of the governmental process, or should be?
Consulates negating this democratic voting process, as I know it: Miami, Toronto.
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Brussels
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Even for Venezuela, the rope-jerking contest going on over the “memoria-y-cuenta” is awe-inspiring… in a vomit-inducing sort of way.
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I looked around at a few newspapers and found many online comments by women
praising Maria Corina Machado and cursing Chavez. Probably over 95%. Hardly
any were critical, All of the men were the same results. But point is -very many women
commented…
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Thanks for picking up on this story immediately, Mr. Cristobal.
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I join the wagon of those who believe MCM’s intervention was historic and symbolicly lethal for Chavez. May not win an election but breaks up a 13 year monologue
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True, she’s only speaking for a small subset of the oppo. But man, it’s stuff like this that SHOULD be winning elections, not the careful treading Crapiles has been (very effectively) doing. It’s stuff like this that makes me go all Ayn Rand-ish and wish for an rlectoral system in which your vote is weighted by your intelligence/education…but then I grow highly unpopular.
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I find it amazing that people here dare to criticize her for the content of her impromptu “speech”. You need to put yourself in her shoes and imagine how would you have handled the situation had it been you there. Be honest with yourself. Would you have even opened your mouth? would you have been more assertive? more articulate? less emotional?
Would you have been more effective?
Fact is after 8 hours of Chavez’s jokes and stories, he made the mistake of mentioning MCM and she grabbed the opportunity and turned the whole situation on it’s head. Consider this: Chavez spoke for more than 9 hours, MCM for two minutes and the next day all that people remember is what MCM said to Chavez.
I would say well done MCM!
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Amieres, that is about aperfect summary! You nailed it,
And, absolutely Well Done, MCM !!!
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Agree with you Amieres
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Finally, someone who gets it. Thanks, amieres.
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I don’t think I would have been less emotional, there you are right.
That is EXACTLY WHY I am not running for president!
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Carolina…thumbs up, thumbs up, a thousand times thumbs up…
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María Corina did seize the opportunity she was presented with, good for her! That she had to improvise is true, and that she was “emotional” in her intervention is an unfair criticism women would get much more often than men in politics would.
Amieres is right, people will remember those two minutes more than the bombastic hot air of the previous eight hours and the two that followed. People (yes “decente”) may be afraid of what happened and what may come from it; but María Corina marked a tippinig point for this regime…
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Actually: I said Borges was too emotional once when Diosdado said some bullshit.
It is like this: the commies have been trained for over a hundred years to provoke their opponents in the few occasions when there is an open venue and see to it those people lose temper, cry, try to use violence. This is actually standard procedure. They will try to tap, spy you to get as much mud as possible. We have seen how difficult it has been for Chavistas as the illegally tapped conversations of oppo calls are so inocuous. And still: Chavistas will try to provoke, etc.
So: what the opposition has to do is to think as if this is chess or Go: think again what the answer from Chavistas will be and state things in such a way that Chavistas will have either to accept a real debate – 1/10000000 chances this happens – or be considered even by until-now-Chavez-voters as cowards.
It is not easy but I think that’s the way to go.
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Critiques re. content, delivery, ill-chosen words, etc. (including mine) notwithstanding, MCM’s two or so minutes trumped HCF´s 9:29. For once, Arturo is absolutely right and not only on CC. I may not have searched far enough but, as far as I can see, even aporrea.org has more on MCM than on “the content of this record breaking discourse”.
I watched most of the State of the Union – read: l’union, c’est moi – message but still found a synopsis necessary (and not only because I inevitably dozed off or attended to necessities from time to time).
http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/120114/principales-temas-que-abordo-chavez-en-su-memoria-y-cuentamost
And of course there are things like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOt9UHyLKDg I wonder whether they only get to the “sifrina de Caurimare”…
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She had the balls, but she didn’t remain level-headed. And she certainly took him to task, which was needed, but she equaled expropriation to theft, which is not the same technically, and furthermore, was overall impossibly sifrina in her demeanor. The latter shouldn’t be so important, but it is. To have a real effect, le hace falta burdel.
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“te hace falta burdel” is code word for “women need not apply.” Machismo runs deep in some of us.
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no sabía. thanks for the tip. pedazo ‘e…
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The expression “le falta burdel” never applied better and it has absolutely nothing to do with machismo. MCM seems an honest person that means what she says. She is smart in the way a newly graduate student with straight “A” is. She seems to me by far the smartest and most eloquent of all the MUD candidates. But for the muddy (no pun intended) Venezuelan political arena, le falta burdel.
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“She is smart in the way a newly graduate student with straight “A” is “. Condescending filling in an apparently laudatory Twinkie (?)
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People, honestly. That so-called tone-deaf, shrill, out-of-touch, hyper-emotional little speech she gave in the National Assembly is the *best* publicity Maria Corina has had in months. Think about the stir it’s caused – for someone polling in the low single digits, this is PR gold. So quit your criticizing – she played her hand well.
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Worth considering: close off the comments section of this blog and just put links to El Chigüire and Tarre’s blog. :)
http://alejandrotarre.com/el-culto-a-los-nini/
http://www.elchiguirebipolar.net/16-01-2012/senora-que-se-dejo-seducir-por-momento-mediatico-impactante-en-1992-y-ahora-se-arrepiente-piensa-que-nuevo-momento-mediatico-impactante-es-la-solucion/
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Rubbish. This guy didn’t get why a lot of people were not satisfied.
It does NOT have anything to do with trying to be “conciliatory”, being mild, etc. It has to do with the fact that if you want to fight, you do that more in the name of most Venezuelans and with words most Venezuelans would identify themselves with and not with a topic that affects mostly 5% of Venezuelans and with words that, whether strong or not, may also bring about connotations of elitist remarks (simply because those very words are used in those contexts).
. You can be very critical of Chávez without saying you are “decent” (it is not in opposition to Diosdado and similar guys, but the word decent is often used by the same people who say they have “clase” and others are riff-raff)
You can be very critical of Chávez but instead of focusing on your father’s plight – even if it is a real plight and injustice- you better talk about the things most people have against Chávez, you focus on most people’s injustice.
And last but not least: given the short opportunity she AND the others had and the fact
this will probably be the only time this year they will see Chávez live and with live TV, she should have said Chávez is a coward because he will run away from real debates with any of the candidates. This was predictable and this was something she – and all the others from the opposition there, more so perhaps – let go.
So: the point is not we want to be nice. The point is if you use an attack against Chávez, be sure it causes the most impact possible.
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